Source:GEnie Apple II RoundTable RTC with Tom Zuchowski

This page is a verbatim reproduction of original source material and should not be edited except for maintenance.
Description	Transcript of a Real-Time Conference (RTC) conducted by host Jerry Kindall (A2.JERRY) as part of the Apple II RoundTable at GEnie. The guest is EAG president Tom Zuchowski (T.ZUCHOWSKI) . Other participants in the conversation are GEnie Lamp A2 editor Tyler Sperry (A2.TYLER); developer Tom Hoover (Barnstormer); adventure author Dan Cross (D.CROSS5); developer Erik Kloeppel (LURCH); Applied Engineering representative Jeff Haas (APPLIED.ENG); Eric Merrill (E.MERRILL); and Rich Lindsey (R.LINDSEY3).
Source	Text file tomz.rtc.txt, originally distributed through GEnie. File was later included on the Time in a Bottle CD, which was extracted and shared with the Eamon Wiki by Margaret Anderson in 2026.
Date	19 December 1989
Author	Jerry Kindall, Tom Zuchowski, et al
License	Permission has kindly been granted by the copyright holder for this copyrighted item to appear in the not-for-profit Eamon Wiki website.

Apple II RoundTable

Real Time Conference Transcript

Guest:
Tom Zuchowski
GEnie Eamon Expert; Eamon Adventurer's Guild

Date:
December 19, 1989

Select item 5 on the A2 main menu for a complete schedule of upcoming A2 RTCs. For even more information, see Bulletin Board Category 3.

Copyright (C) 1989 by the Apple II RoundTable of GEnie. All rights reserved.

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<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

Tonight's guest is Eamon expert Tom Zuchowski, better known simply as "TomZ". Since I don't know a whole lot about Eamon myself, I thought I'd let TomZ give a brief description of what Eamon is all about.

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

Eamon is a role-playing adventure gaming system that has been around for about 10 years. It consists of a diskful of programming tools that enable anyone to write their own Eamon adventure programs. Currently, there are 187 Eamon adventures in the EAG library.

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

Tom, by role-playing, do you mean Zork-style logic puzzles, or Wizardry-style D&D? I mean, does the adventurer assemble a group to go exploring, or is it basically you vs the game?

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

The type of adventuring is in the text-format, puzzle and combat form of Zork. You can't assemble a group. You just go exploring. Lots of Eamons have quests that you must fulfill. Most have extensive puzzles, and most have lots of combat. The magic spells are generally quite limited. Very much like Zork or Adventure. The only difference is that you retain the same character from one adventure to the next by storing it on the Master disk. The Master generates a character for you and supplies you with basic weapons and magic.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER>:

You mentioned that there are 187 adventures to date. How many of those do we have here in our GEnie library?

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

Right now we have about 10, I think. I am uploading one or two every week.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER>:

Okay, can you tell us why Eamon has remained DOS 3.3 and has not been converted to ProDOS?

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

Yes, but it gets complicated. DOS 3.3 is the great equalizer. Everyone can run it. This ensures that all Eamons will run on all Apples. Many Eamon users are teachers who use Eamon as a teaching aid in class. They may have very old and/or limited Apple hardware. Also, it would be a lot of work to convert all those Eamons to ProDOS. I don't want to do it, especially since I need to keep up with the DOS 3.3 library for those who need it. DOS 3.3 uses somewhat less memory than ProDOS does, and free memory is the number one bottleneck in Eamon . Last but not least, with the ProDOS genie out of the bottle, I fear that the IIgs people would start doing GS-specific stuff. I have a II+, and can't support super-ProDOS-Eamon. I don't know anything about IIgs stuff.

<[Barnstormer] TOM-HOOVER>:

I'd like to expand on Tyler's question. Are the Eamons compatible with Bredon's DOS Master? If so, it doesn't really matter if they're DOS 3.3 or ProDOS. DOS Master works on any Apple II that can run ProDOS.

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

Gary Little's AmDOS will at least allow you to put Eamons on a 3.5" disk.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER>:

Last night I had the opportunity to speak with Jim Mensch who is the project manager for the Apple IIgs System Software. Apple will not be developing a DOS 3.3 File System Translator. This means that there will be no direct way of reading or writing DOS 3.3 files with GS/OS. This definitely puts a cramp on IIgs users who know little of DOS 3.3.

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

Tyler, even if they did develop a DOS 3.3 FST, it still wouldn't help run 8-bit Applesoft programs under DOS 3.3. How does this relate to our topic?

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER>:

I'm just saying that there is a limitation to DOS 3.3, and I think that ProDOS Eamons would be quite welcome in the Apple II community. GS users are used to running programs from the Finder, or some other launcher.

<[Barnstormer] TOM-HOOVER>:

If the Eamon's are DOS Master compatible, they could be run from the Finder!

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER>:

DOS Master could be an alternative, if it works.

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

A typical better-quality Eamon takes 1 to 10 hours to play, and if you are going to be Eamon-specific for that length of time, what do you need the Finder for?

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

What do you expect of a ten-year-old public-domain program? (grin)

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

I'd love to work on a ProDOS Eamon, but I don't think that I am qualified, with my limited hardware. Anyway, I guess that's all. I have trouble seeing the problem with booting into DOS 3.3 if you are going to stay there for a while.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER>:

Tom, I am not asking that you undertake this personally. I just think that it is something that needs some consideration.

<LURCH>:

How difficult would it really be to convert Eamon (and its scenarios) to ProDOS? I don't know of a way to run DOS 3.3 from a hard disk. I guess I should be asking, besides the structure, what makes Eamon DOS 3.3 only? If I used Copy II+ and its "translator" why wouldn't Eamon run under ProDOS?

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

Lurch, I don't think that it would be that difficult, but someone has to do it. ProDOS 8 and DOS 3.3 are very similar as far as commands go. It should run OK. Translations have been done. Someone will have to come up with a directory protocol, though.

<LURCH>:

Well, to tell the truth, I'm playing Devil's Advocate, sorta. When I found out what this RTC was about, I got a couple copies of the Eamon Master disk and a few scenarios and translated them with Copy II+, and they seem to run fine from my hard disk.

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

That's good to hear!

<[DAN] D.CROSS5>:

I've tried to run Eamon on my GS. I've been booting it just like my IIe and it won't work. Why?

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

Is your drive in slot 6, Dan? I have heard that the 'S6,D1' command used can hang up GSs. I dunno any more about it, but one guy called me once and told me that when he deleted these references, it worked OK. There are usually a couple of them in each main program and they are in the Main Hall, too. I deleted them from the Eamons that have been uploaded on GEnie.

<[DAN] D.CROSS5>:

My disk drive is in slot 6 and I'm not using the Finder or anything of that nature. My neighbor got Eamon on his A2-Central disk of the month, and it wouldn't work on his GS, so I wondered if the folks at A2 were using IIes or a GS.

<[Jeff] APPLIED.ENG>:

It sounds like a bad controller.

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

I believe I have heard some other reports of problems with the Eamon on the A2-Central disk.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER>:

Dan, what do you have your System Speed set to? Try running Eamon at slow speed and see if it boots then. That could be a problem with some DOS 3.3 programs.

<[DAN] D.CROSS5>:

Very good question, I'm not sure if it was fast or slow. Will have to check that out.

<[Eric] E.MERRILL>:

I haven't had any problems with the Eamons running on my GS, with or without the S6,D1, and in fast speed. I'm using the new 5.25 drive. Could the old Disk II's cause a problem since they're not daisy-chained?

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

Dan, you might want to try posting in the Eamon category in the Bulletin Board. Maybe someone else has had a similar problem. Failing that, maybe it's a hardware problem of some sort. You might also try sending a letter to A2.DEAN; he's the one who puts the A2-Central disk together.

<[Rich] R.LINDSEY3>:

The best way to run Eamon on a GS is to use DOS 3.3 on a 5.25 disk connected to a Multi-Cache. The entire disk loads into cache and the program flies!

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

Wow! I hadn't thought of that. Kind of an expensive peripheral for Eamon -playing though!

<[Rich] R.LINDSEY3>:

Yeah, but its one more reason for getting one!

<[Eric] E.MERRILL>:

Since most of the Eamons aren't that difficult to convert to ProDOS, they even fly faster on the RAM drive.

<LURCH>:

I just stepped out, and ran the Eamon Master at both fast and slow speeds on my GS. I got into the cave each time, so speed doesn't seem to matter.

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

Tom, earlier you mentioned the EAG. What exactly is it?

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

I run a newsletter and club named the "Eamon Adventurer's Guild." It comes out 4 times a year for people who don't do BBS's. It has articles submitted by members that include reviews and designer tutorials, and bug reports, etc.

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

How many people are in the group?

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

Right now there are 70-odd members. It fluctuates a little but has remained pretty close to that number over the years. Send in your $7 and we'll sign you up! It's EAMON ADVENTURER'S GUILD, 7625 Hawkhaven Dr., Clemmons, NC 27012. (That is my home address.)

<[Eric] E.MERRILL>:

What's the current version for Eamon? I thought you said something about version 7.0, but the current Master says 4.0.

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

The version on the Master is not related to the version of the Designer. The Master is only used for launching adventures and character storage. The Designer version is the version of the Main Program that the actual adventure will have. There have been a lot of changes to it over the years. The simplest ones are the earliest versions. Version 5 added the save command and limited abbreviation checking. Version 6 added several new commands like put, free, and so on and expanded the artifact types and potential considerably. Version 7 expanded these options further and cleaned up a lot of sloppy stuff in the previous versions. It also runs a lot faster.

<[Eric] E.MERRILL>:

Do all the Eamons which use the save game option INIT the save disk? I used a modified DOS, as was recommended, but the game crashed when I found out it needed to have the INIT command intact.

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

Most Eamons save to the same disk. Some of the larger ones save to a separate disk because the adventure disk is too full. The protocol of initing the save disk more or less just happened, like the S6,D1 thing, and became ingrained in the way things were done. I guess that the system should probably be modified to tell the player up front to have a formatted disk handy for saves.

<[Eric] E.MERRILL>:

Just how involved is designing an Eamon?

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

It depends on how complicated you want to make it! Seriously, once you have got the manual figured out, you could do a small "mickey mouse" Eamon of 10 rooms or so in about a half hour. I generally spend 3 to 6 months of steady work on mine. Actually, I think they're a whole lot more fun to write than they are to play. The main purpose of Eamon, in my opinion, is for authors to write them, not for users to play them. But that's just a personal opinion. You can easily become addicted to working on your Eamon to the exclusion of almost everything else. You'd be amazed.

<LURCH>:

I fully sympathize with the addiction. I'm currently addicted to another programming project that keeps me up for days at a time.

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

Tom, out of all the Eamons you've played and written, which is your favorite? Or, which ones are the most popular?

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

Probably #166 Storm Breaker by Sam Ruby. I haven't yet uploaded it because it's a 3-disk Eamon. Actually, just about anything by Roger Pender, John Nelson, Pat Hurst, or Sam Ruby is top-drawer.

<[DAN] D.CROSS5>:

You forgot to mention a TomZ adventure in there! Tom's adventurers are top drawer too!

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

(blushing)

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

Tom, any closing remarks?

<[TomZ] T.ZUCHOWSKI>:

Well, I have come to realize that we do probably need to get a ProDOS Eamon going, but I am not really the one to do it with my antiquated Apple. I hope that you all will play Eamon lots, and will let me know what you think so that we can continue to improve it.

<[Jerry] A2.JERRY>:

I'd like to thank Eamon expert Tom Zuchowski for being our guest at the A2 Real Time Conference. Next week, in honor of the holiday, we will not have a Tuesday night RTC, but don't forget the Sunday night Christmas Eve RTC with a visit from you-know-who! Santa will be giving someone a free day in A2! Until then, stay well and have fun on GEnie!

========================= End of Transcript ==========================

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